User talk:BlazingKusanagi
Welcome Hi, welcome to YuYu Hakusho Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Demon Species page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Hiei Jaganshi (Talk) 19:33, March 25, 2011 So what's your opinion on the YYH Picture Drama? My reaction? Disappointment of the Decade. It wasn't funny at all and despite claims that it would continue the story, it was just a random spinoff of the main 4 asking girls out or something. It was kinda nice hearing the voices though, but the cons far outweighed the pros. I tend to agree with you that it was a total disappointment. The characterization was ok, especially Yusuke, and I thought the artwork was very impressive, but the actually substance of the video is uninteresting and the dialogue is laughably drab. That said, the voices themselves are entertaining I suppose, but the plot...Kuwabara giving dating advice, gimme a break. score 4/10 Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 18:18, March 26, 2011 (UTC) 4 out of 10?! You are far too kind... Shout Out Hey, from what I've witnessed, your contributions are really nice additions to the site and very informative, keep up the good work man! Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 22:46, April 14, 2011 (UTC) BTW, I'll try to get the manga scans to add pics for the new pages you added. Thanks, I really appreciate your support. I'm glad I chose to join wikia, when you recommended it to me. It would be much appreciated if you could add some more information on Rainbow Cyclone Redux to go with that great pic you added. If not, it can't be helped. Thx -Jacen Kay, it looks much better now. your continued commitment is much appreciated. Good thinking to condense genkai's Power/techniques section designating spirit wave as her fighting style. Nice! Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 20:27, April 29, 2011 (UTC) I don't think we should use energy levels, as not many are known and they change so frequently throughout the series. ~HJ~ we can do whatever you want really, I'm game for getting it done, obviously we'll keep it as canon as possible. and we should probably communicate via wikicommunitycentral chat, it's a new feature we'll eventually have on this wiki, and it'll be much more effective for general and group chat. So it's agreed we'll include a disclaimer. hey What would you rank Kaname Hagiri? @^@'' 02:58, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' He's definitely one of the stronger members of the Sensui Seven. I'd say between D+ to C. C, eh? Hiei and I seem to think he's at C+. Mind telling me why you think he's there? While he's powerful, I think its his effective use of his abilities, rather than the ability itself which makes him so dangerous. I doubt he's as effective as he says. He's never hit anything, without the territory, and he can obfuscate. Why do you think he's so weak? So, seeing how he's not as effective as he says, you think he should be even lower? I call that circumstancial however, considering most of his misses were random, and Kuwabara interfered with one, however, he'd never missed in his territory. Also, his abilities are deadly, and should be A/S class. According to that list C+ was 40 percent Toguro. I don't think Sniper is to that level. What I meant by deadly was, to kill someone you don't need a giant dark flame dragon or a man eating plant, no matter how tiny a bullet is, a bullet is still a bullet. Seeing how quickly he was felled by Hiei makes it difficult for me to place him anywhere higher than a C. I think he just specializes in fighting slower opponents and is helpless against those who have strong enough defense to block the attacks (like Bui) or those fast enough to dodge (Hiei or Jin). Compared to other psychics, his ability is very simple, just telekinetically moving objects, but he uses it so effectively makes him a dangerous opponent. I think so. He nearly killed a B+ Urameshi, who regardless of whether you say was motivated or not, was still trying to beat Hagiri up. Hiei in the manga did a cheap shot, while him being defeated in the anime was nothing but PIS, as he could've shot Hiei point-blank, in the head. Yusuke was not slow, and his territory makes it so that speed doesn't matter. What's more important seems to be his distance from the opponent. And his ability is much more potent than how he uses it. What I mean is that telekinesis has unlimited potential: he could shoot his opponents, and could behead them easily. He is the cool kind of guy, so I'm guessing he shows off? Because as he could move that tanker, he'd obviously be able to do the aforementioned. And that's what counts- not just what has been explicitly shown...as long as his feats aren't too far-fetched. And sorry. If I don't argue you to death, I'll leave it a C+/B- w/ Shi Mon Jou Ji Han. I'm trying to come to an agreement. See if you can convince me, so I can convince Jangashi. Or the other way around, if you can't. BTW blazing, we are referencing the Character Tier pg. made by ctype; I believe the C+ 40% toguro was part of the pojo table, which we're just using as a reference, not a representation of a consensus like on the main tier page. I still believe Hagiri is at C+* energy level, for the reasons stated above, obfuscation, he would have no trouble dealing with the Saint beasts or Yukina arc Yusuke/Kuwabara imo which are a good representation of middle C class energy. That said, we're measuring him in terms of the capability of his powers and what they allow him to do to other fighters, then determining what level of fighter he should be deemed. I probably confused you further, and I'm sorry about that. My thoughts don't always follow a logical pattern and it shows in my writing. Anyhow I feel that Toguro at 40% is with out a doubt at mid B- class. 60%= low B 80% = B* 100%=mid B+ 120%=B+* pojo's list had toguro 100% at B level, which we know is wrong lol No matter how fast Yusuke was, I still think the only reason Sniper was able to nearly kill Yusuke was becuase Sniper's abilities were better suited for fighting someone like Yusuke or Kuwabara rather than someone like Hiei, Bui, or Jin. I don't think a demon on the same level as Yusuke would have had as much trouble fighting Sniper. Sniper's powers just seem tailor made for human victims, as they have less ways to counter such attacks. Like I said Sniper's abilities demonstrated were not at the level of the other C+/B- demons, but still a bullet is still a bullet. His attacks have unlimited potential, but Kaito has unlimited potential as well, but even his has shortcomings (the plants gently letting Yana go). Sniper's shortcoming was that while his bullets were fast, Hiei was faster. So his abilities are based on things he can launch based on his surroundings, and thus he is dependent on them. If he has nothing to launch, he is helpless. So really, its his tactical and effective use of his abilities, rather than his abilities themselves (which are very simple compared to others) which makes him so deadly. Yusuke was fast indeed and was almost able to block all of his attacks but not fast enough, but even in the anime, Hiei was faster to the point that he was able to completely dodge Sniper, even when Sniper tried to hit him from point blank range with bullets enhanced by his abilites. It's just that Hiei's abilities were better suited against Sniper's abilites. Sniper was hiding, striking from afar, and taking advantage of his surroundings and his range. That's more of Sniper using effective tactics to defeat his opponent. To compare, its sorta like that Gouta guy from Busou Renkin. His powers are really weak and simple, just controlling small spinning discs, but he is able to defeat foes far more powerful (with much more useful weapons) than him by using strategy and deception. That's what keeps me from thinking he is that high. Still feel free to disagree with me. I do...and thanks for blocking my post >.<' But actually I think that summary of Toguro's spirit classes is correct... I can respect that you think Sniper's abilities are human-tailored, but not every demon is as fast as Hiei. Speed seems to be the only thing that defeated him, in that scenario. Sniper only chooses to shoot bullet size objects, because they use the least amount of his energy. He can definitely shoot larger things, including his opponents. As for the comparison, actually, I believe that Kaito and Kido are S and A classes, respectively. I'll defend that claim later, if you want. Ok, I take it back. If Sniper has nothing to launch, he IS helpless...excluding his gun. Hiei is an unsually fast character, and he was even faster than Sensui, shown by catching him of guard, before attacking. But that's only a special case. Few demons -even those with higher classes- are as fast as Hiei is. And the pistol that Hagiri used, was a normal gun- nothing special about his use of it. While Sniper is more suited to long range, don't assume that he absolutely can't fight midrange. The only distance he'd absolutely fail in is close range, and Hiei also hid out the entirety of the fight, in the manga, which is canon, only attack Hagiri when his back was turned completely. I got the Leaf blade scan, but have been unable to find the epilogue scans online, if you could post a link to the epilogue, I could do it easily :) If you can't find it, no worries. ... oh...thanks, lol You make a great point Kusanagi, and it has sort of swayed me to your side placing sniper at a C* class. It is the employment of his abilities against opponents ill-suited to fighting him (which is quite a high percentage of humans and comparable demons) which makes him seem so powerful. I like your a bullet is a bullet tag line haha. But we've seen B range demons easily dodge his attacks yet Yusuke seemed to have some difficulty doing so at upper B class levels. Well, maybe not difficulty as much as laziness and lack of motivation hahah.He has psychology on his side as well as relentless/pin point accurate and deatly attack, in all honesty those are traits I haven't found in comparable C-/C class beings. @^@'' 03:09, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' Sway then, Jangashi! Lol. I'm looking for a good debate, but if I'm outnumbered, so be it. I'll harbor my personal opinion, and leave him at a C*. ANYTHING is better than him as an upper D class. That's just blasphemy. @^@'' 04:28, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' When I said C-/C I was talking more about the nature of their powers themselves, not taking into account factors like strategy employed by the characters. Sniper's level can vary whether you discuss his power level itself (lower), or if you include the effective tactics he employs to win (higher). If we do the latter, this list would be MUCH more difficult to make as even when Kurama was a D rank demon, with his intelligence, he should have been much higher. In that case, Jangashi would be doing the former, while I'd be including both. However, I believe his abilities are of the A class...I sound like a fanboy? The thing is, Hagiri's physical traits aren't up to par with his skills, explaining his guerilla tactics. "sort of swayed me to your side" i'm still UNDECIDED lol and I honestly feel the best representation of his capability is C+* level. But since blazing put up a fight, we can go with C+? I'd love to debate and I'm sure there'll be many more bouts like this to come, but I've got to catch some Z's pretty soon XD True, true, well, I'll just wait for his confirmation..... hah, don't get ahead of yourself fanboy, before you can get him to A- we've got to convince BLazing he's an upper C lol >...> I'm definitely alright with him being C+. @^@'' 04:47, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' I honestly don't care if you put Upper C on the page. I just giving my opinion that I don't agree with it, as it seems to be a representation of his level if everything went his way and fought an opponent who can't effectively counter, rather than a representation of his actual abilities. To quote Yusuke, "TOGURO WAS JUST A B?!" (A- at best with his 100%). Yes, you do sound like a fanboy. Nothing wrong with that, just don't make you liking the character influence your decision on his level. P.S. This is like the fourth time someone replied while I was writing my response. It's getting kind of annoying, though to be fair my comments are very long. lol, that's why you should use join the MvC blazingkusanagi. ask ctype for details, it's much more effective for debates ^_^ and he's totally a Hagiri fanboy, i'm adding a sniper pic to his profile page haha Now, now- come on, guys. Let's not hate :P I never said I'd make him a B, but an upper C is....allow me to make a comparison, to satisfy you. According to pojo, Toya is an upper C. Toya was brutalized by Kurama, who couldn't fight for nearly the entire engagement, and even though their wits matched, he couldn't finish the latter off. If Hagiri is a low upper C class, then what's so bad about that? You said yourself that, coupling with his intellect, he could be higher. Nothing wrong with not liking Hagiri- I won't give him an asterisk or another class. And I try not to compare two characters in my list- the fights and their pairings could be biased. I try to analyze the abilities in general. Sniper's abilities are phenomenol. All he has to do his touch something, and he can shoot it. That's A class material, and I'm not taking that back. Again, him being a human is the only real limiter, and why he is not B class. To call Toguro a lower A class, is to go against the show and manga. When have we ever showed "hate" lol? We're just giving our opinions. The reason I'm going by C is like I said, I'm going by the powers levels alone like Jaganshi, rather than taking into account aspects like strategy. I view tactics and intelligence of demons around that level as more of a side effect than a deciding factor that they are that level. Sniper's abilities are phenomenol, but they are not without limits. C+/B- would be if everything happened to go his way (i.e. Yusuke being in an area where there were several things Sniper could attack him with) and was paired with an opponent ill suited to his abilites. While he has very high offensive potential, in overall fighitng ability his vulnerability, and his dependence on factors working his way keep him from being too high. Characters like Touya, while his defense is low as well, demonstrated a great range of abilities. Kurama defeated Touya in part due to Touya's weak defense (which he made up with his variety of offensive options) and the rest due to Kurama coming up with a strategy to defeat him. If Touya hadn't been deceived to land the finishing blow and kept attacking from afar, I think Kurama would have collapsed from exhaustion. Since that was a battle Kurama won through clever deception rather than his abilities alone, I don't think it should be taken into account in comparing power levels. To me it's like saying because Yusuke defeated Rando through luck, he must be stronger. When at the time, it was obvious Rando was at a much higher level. Nothing is "bad" about him being upper C, like I said you can put whatever you want on the page, and I won't go out of my way to change it on the page. You asked me for my opinion on what level I thought he was, and I am merely giving the reason why I believe him to be a certain level. I find no reason to force you to agree with me. P.S. I said A- "at best" not definitely. I consider him a B+, but I'm saying its a possibility. In the original Japanese, Toguro's final form wasn't 100, but was "100 over 100" percent, so it is him going beyond his body's limits (which was high B), much higher than what Spirit World had measured. Let me know if you have any requests for manga scans to be added to any of the pages on this wiki. I'd be glad to add anything you'd like. Hiei_Jaganshi (talk) 20:58, May 2, 2011 (UTC) How about younger Kurama's leaf sword in the two shots chapter? As well as the manga epilogue scans such as showing Jin, Touya, and Suzuki sneeze, Kaito and his girlfriend. I was joking about the "hate" comment, lol. All factors go into a spirit class. What you're arguing about is his energy level. Intellect, speed, tactics, strength, durability -without energy-, agility, and reaction speed accounts for the results I come up with. Based on all of that, what do you think his class is? You've been arguing for the wrong thing this entire time. 100 over 100, as in past his limit? That sounds like what 120 percent would be like- upper B class. @^@'' 21:50, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' This was a response to your previous comment you posted while I was writing @Ctype While Kaito can potentially be the most powerful psychic due to the fact that his abilities completely nullify defense and Kido can completely freeze foes, I don't think that makes them S and A. Kido can only freeze foes by getting close to them, and even if enemies didn't know about his power, he can be defeated from afar, and he can be attacked by others while stepping one one's shadow. The most powerful Kido can be is if some giant thing was in the sky that covered a crowd of demons in shadow, and if Kido was in the middle he can presumably bind all of them. Kaito has a lot of potential like Sniper, but I don't think "potential" should decide how they fit on that list, as potential, is what they are capable at their best if they make the most of their abilities. You can't assume everything will work in his favor. Demons that don't have as much speed as Hiei on his level will most likely have other ways to defeat Sniper like superior tracking abilities or enhanced defeneses (like Bui's battle aura or Toya creating an ice shield). Sniper was lucky that a truck just happened to be within his range, thus factors were working in his favor. He can shoot larger objects, but like I said he is using smaller objects because for the third time " a bullet is a bullet" and that is all that is necessary to cause enough damage to kill, I don't think that is evidence of giving him such a high level, it seems more of him using effective tactics to take down his foe. Btw I was including his gun among things he is dependent on. I'm pretty sure Sniper's gun is enhanced by his abilities, even if a normal pistol, the rate is probably even faster by inserting his spirit energy and giving it even more precision. I'm sure he can fight midrange, but in midrange he is far more open to attack, and is much more vulnerable to attack, and thus far weaker. The only way I can see Sniper as effective in midrange is if he was on his motorcycle (to compensate for poor movement), or fought against foes unable to properly counter even simple attacks. I think going solely by the manga canon will be a problem, as we will have to remove 1/3 of the fights in the last season. P.S. it would have been far better if you commented directly under my comment to make it less confusing .This is the comment to what you just posted I've been arguing for the power level itself, but even with all those additions I doubt it will change. Even if you took in all factors, Sniper has fairly good intellect and reaction speed, with high tactics, butSniper's abysmal ratings in physical strength (not his projectiles), durability, and agility (unless on his motorcycle). Other demons on that level are more likely far more balanced, even if aspects such as strength and speed are focused on. By the way if you go by that rather than just power level like I am and take into account those factors and potential, you'll have to completely change that list as Kurama's intellect, and Yusuke's increases in energy when those he care for are in danger, Hiei and Rando could have easily killed Yusuke but decided to be sadistic etc etc. I view his full form as B+, and him going beyond his limits (100 over 100, though some refer to is as 120%) percent verging (may or may not pass) as A-. You've got the go ahead to condense those two Suzaku techniques into one. I assumed that's why you did it- to add accurate info and because of the assumption that he can shoot arrows solo. You made the right call, but they should really be condensed and have the Viz manga name included. Well, if you think Sniper sucks that badly, I'll go ahead and change him to a high mid C, if Jangashi has fully swayed his opinion. And no, I won't have to change the classes- every think is averaged out, and Kurama BoS is incredibly weak, to the point where his intellect plays less of a role, and he takes an incredible amount of damage finding the enemy's vulnerabilities. As for Yusuke's life energy, that's max upper C, and behavioral patterns were not listed, so what you've said about Hiei and Rando don't count. Then Sniper must be BARELY upper C? Lol I don't think he sucks (I wouldn't describe C or high D+as "suck"), he's probably my favorite of the Sensui's Seven, I think you're overrating him (I personally find it hilarious you think that C=suck, and C+=powerful). I think that they should be analyzed based on an even playing field, rather than situations where everything goes his way or he fighs against foes he is better suited. Sniper had used his abilities in a wide open area, where he could most effectively use his abilities. Even though Hiei defeated him by sneaking up on him, that is just as much tactics and deception as Sniper fighting from afar where he is safe from harm. Regrettably using pokemon as an example, certain types are more suited for fighting against other types, and it terms of statistics are better prepared to fight against other pokemon. What I meant was that behavior patterns of sadistically holding back actually made them weaker than they were at their full strength and quickly killed them, thus it should make some differences as they were not fighting to their fullest. Ok, you're right in that scenario...but upper D and lower C are "suck" to me....mid C is too. Anyway, I'm guessing you suggest he'd be midsized playing field? Ok then, but the only way Sniper could win in that situation is he shot his opponents. So, I see what you mean. Yusuke'd fry him, unless Sniper had him a grip long enough to transfer his demon energy to Yusuke and hit him. But what about the Shi Mon Jou Ji Han? Couldn't that make him an effective midranged fighter? Maybe even close ranged? And as an update, Hagiri is pretty agile: he'd climbed up the cliff overlooking that forest, and in Tokubetsu Hen, he can jump as high as Yusuke, and has a longer hangtime. If you don't consider Tokubetsu Hen canon, he'd managed to slip away from Yusuke, after the latter chased him. I know for sure that Yusuke is faster than a motorcycle...if an upper B Yusuke isn't, are you to say that only opponents around Hiei's speed can utilize that advantage? Because that's what it's looking like. I'm not counting behavoral patterns. Like Kurama's intelligence, which has no "direct" effect on his abilities, those traits have no "direct" effect also, and have nothing to do with their natural abilities that we've seen. @^@'' 22:53, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' The bullet prints seem more effective from long range than mid range, as attacks are headed towards the victim with 100 percent accuracy while the victim cannot see where the attacker is. The 100 percent accuracy don't mean much if they have more effective ways of blocking/countering or more ways to control their attacks than Yusuke, I'm sure he's agile for human standards but I don't think he would be comparable to the demon on that level. If you take into account tools like his motorcycle, one can argue that he is agile, but whether you do is up to you, I wouldn't as his motorcyle for enhanced speed is just as much a tool as his marble, gun, and truck projectiles. Btw we shouldn't consider video games canon in a tier list, in one fighting game, Sniper's super attack is him jumping over an ENTIRE TRUCK which heads straight for the foe. I'm sorry that is just too much. If you think its only speed, I've listed examples of other ways to counter him earlier, but I'll go more in depth. Even without Hiei's speed, Touya has his ice which can be used as a shield, Chu has his barriers, Jin can fly out of range, Zeru can surround himself with flames to melt everything that comes toward him there are many ways to counter his abilities more than speed. Ok, you're good then. I'll place him at max mid C (O.o), but the agility still stands. You haven't debunked my anime/manga claim, and the game you'd mentioned was for the Neo Geo, I think. I meant Tokubetsu Hen, for the SNES, which didn't seem noncanon, because it presented no noncanon material, and wasn't outlandish with what I did present....at least for Hagiri. Him jumping over the truck was my point though. He apparently has a good jumper.. You've nullified his attack though, so I'll make him a max mid C, and because I'm a Hagiri fanboy (as you are a Toguro fanboy ;P), I'll make another listing, including his motorcycle. That'll be an upper C. Sound good? (thumbs up) I was considering mentioning the motorcycle earlier, and am glad you had the same thoughts about it I did. That should put this scuffle between you two over C* --> C+ to rest lol :P Time for another few, since I'm still in C territory, lol....I hate C class. :l Kusanagi, what'd you rate Kaisei, Fubuki, Koto, and Juri (who are somehow C class)? We say that Kaisei As for the last two, we both agree that they aren't C class, but Jangashi thinks that they are both lower D class, while I think that Koto is a D class, while Juri is a lower D. I'm officially agreeing with you about Koto. Unlike, Juri she's experienced and withstood Toguro's energy release, where lesser apparitions perished. I can agree with D class for her based on feats of survival and agility :) @^@'' 23:22, May 2, 2011 (UTC)'' Then I'll continue :]